To follow up my last article, I’m going to get into the basics of pedal train order. I want to explain away any mystery about the order of different kinds of pedals and offer some ideas on how you can experiment with pedal placement on your own board. The important part is that once you understand the fundamentals of how placement will change your sound, you can make educated decisions and find the sound you want. That’s what we’re about here at TPL, giving you control.
The first step is to consider your pedal train based on the overdrive split. No matter what kind of pedals you use, choosing to put a pedal before or after your overdrive section makes all the difference. Anything before your overdrive section will change the signal that the overdrive section boosts and distorts. Everything after the overdrive section modulates or tweaks the driven sound. Another way to think of the overdrive split is that everything that comes after the overdrive section can be put through an FX loop, if your amp has one. In addition, if you have a Noise Suppressor, you can place the Noise Suppressor directly after your overdrive section, and run your post-overdrive effects through its FX loop (if it has one).
Overdrive Section: Your overdrive section can consist of more than one pedal. This is where you have OD, Distortion and Boost. Another key idea to keep in mind while building your board is that your pedals “stack” or shape each other. This concept is well illustrated in your overdrive section. For the beginner, I would suggest going from light to dark along your pedal train. If you use Boost > OD > Distortion, you will have more options with the way the pedals shape each other. You can stack the effects this way without getting flat tones (e.g. Distortion > OD can be very cold and flat).
Pre-Overdrive: Before the overdrive section, you want to put all of your transparent or clean signal processing pedals. These include Filters, Gates, Compressors, and Wah. The pedals in this section shape your guitar’s tone before it enters overdrive. You’ll put your tuner in this section, preferably first, so that you have no modulation on the signal that you are tuning. The order of pedals before your overdrive can differ, but as long as you keep your delays and modulation out of this section, you are on the right track. Finding what works for you will take some tweaking. As a starting point, I would suggest Tuner > Filter/Gate > Compressor > Wah if you have the pedals I mentioned above.
Post-Overdrive: After the overdrive section (or in the FX loop), you want to put any Delay(s), Reverb, Chorus, Phaser, Tremolo or Vibrato. The idea of pedal stacking is especially important after your overdrive section. If you put a Tremolo into a Delay, your delay will capture the Tremolo’s effect, and so on. Pedal order in this section can get tricky, but as a general set up for you to play with, I’d recommend Volume/Gate > Tremolo/Vibrato > Chorus/Phase > Delay > Reverb. With Reverb last, you get a bigger sound because the added “room” effect will stack the full spectrum of tones you are putting into it.
Specific Pedals & Placement:
Wah: Most tone purists put Wah before the overdrive. This gives you a very smooth, warm Wah sound. With the Wah after your overdrive section, your Wah’s tone will have a ringy, high-end sound (lows will be scooped out).
Octave & Pitch Shifting: Clean Octave pedals (not Octave Fuzz) will have a more predictable, clear tone if placed before the overdrive split. If you place the Octave after your overdrive section, you can get some thick, glitchy sounds that most would want to avoid. You can put this before your Wah if both are before the overdrive section.
Volume: If you put the Volume pedal before your overdrive, it will change the level of overdrive you get in addition to adjusting your level. The signal going into your overdrive will be reduced, and especially with a tube amp, you will notice a drastic change in drive rather than the level. If you place your Volume pedal after the overdrive, or first in the FX loop, you will simply adjust the level. This gives you a steady sound with volume control.
Distortion: Because I want to keep your options open, I should mention that you can put a Distortion pedal in the FX loop if you really want that thin, cold Metal Zone-y sound. If you keep your signal clean and use your cold distortion before your Volume/Gate (first in post-overdrive), you can maintain the pedal’s sound without added tube warmth. Not my favorite, but I’ve seen someone use it this way.
Also, If you have a heavy fuzz pedal like the ZVEX Fuzz Factory or the PTD Mini-Bone, you have to put it pre-overdrive and have only true bypass pedals before it. A buffered (stock BOSS) pedal will make your Fuzz. If you are stacking Wah and Octave, put the Fuzz before them. This kind of Fuzz needs a pure signal to put out a good sound. This also means that you generally want to use it alone.
If there are any pedals you want specific placement input for, drop a comment. I’ll try to experiment and answer as thoroughly as possible. For the sake of length, I kept this article as concise as possible. In the next article, I get more into Effects Loops and how you can use them to your advantage.
The Pedal Lab 
Hi,
I have a Fuzz Face and Vox wah wah (V846) that I bought in the 70’s. No matter which way around I have them I can’t get a good fuzz and wah sound when used together! I have a buffer fitted to the wah wah which gave some improvement but it’s still not good. Either I get a squeaky sound from the wah with the fuzz in front or a hardly any wah effect with the wah in front.
Cheers,
David.
Hello David,
There is a vast array of buffers out there, but I’ve had the best luck with the Foxrox Wah Retrofit. However, when I installed it I did a lot of other modifications to my circuit. You may also want to try to change the sweep of the wah by unscrewing the rack and turning the pinion a bit.
If that still doesn’t work, send us an email. I’d be happy to work with you some more!
Any ideas on the Digitech Wammy Pedal. I’ve had it in different spots. It didn’t work well last.
I wouldn’t expect that it would. Since it’s a pitch shifting pedal, I’d place it as one of the first pedals. It might be interesting to hear it after a dirty boost, but it should definitely be before anything with some serious gain.
I actually have the Whammy Pedal second to last before the Vox Time Delay. I think it sucks tone and changes your signal even off if it’s first. My pedal order is: Crybaby-DS1 (Keeley Mod)-NS1-MXR Phase90- CH3-Whammy-Vox Delay.
Hey Rick, Sorry for the delay. I recently picked up a Whammy myself and I wanted to play with placement before responding. In this picture you can see what I used. To be honest, I didn’t have very different results besides what I’d expect from the tonal qualities of the pedal. I did find that I preferred to have the dirt first (but I think that’s because I had pedals I liked more in front).
That being said, there could possibly be some tone sucking because the pedal is not true bypass. If you’re handy with a soldering iron, here is a guide on how to true bypass a Whammy. It always makes me a bit nervous to do that kind of a mod but, if you’re feeling confident, I’ve heard good things about the end result. If you aren’t feeling confident, there are other guides and even places you can send it to have them change the bypass method for you.
Or, you could buy/build a true bypass looper (which you’d use as the new method for toggling the effect). There are plenty of options to end pedal vampirism.
I use a Boss AW-3 and I have a Distortion before and after it—sometimes I like distorted wah, and others I like Wahhed distortion–sometimes I like both.
I have three distortions I use so I spread them out to get some different options.
Wah really only has an issue with fuzz. There is no set rules that say you must order your pedals in a specific manner. The only thing that matters is if it sounds good to you.
I agree, that’s how I came up with having one before and one after the AW-3.
When people ask me about pedal order, I tell them to mix it up and try it for themselves. Have fun!
Funny you should say that, if you look carefully at the pedal board in this article, I run the Vox V847 Wah before dirt and a Plutoneium Chi-Wah-Wah after dirt.
Thanks for the response on the Whammy mod. I might try to do that true bypass to it. It’s working good now. After I ran them with new cables I’ve noticed the MXR Phase 90 has a bit of a tone suck/volume drop to it. It almost seems like it’s not getting enough juice. I tried it on just the battery and no difference.
Anyone else notice any issues with an old Phase 90. Maybe it’s the pedal?
What are you using to power your pedals? Some pedals draw more current than others, so you’ll want to make sure that your powering method can handle all of your pedals.
Great informative article! I just bought a Fender Hot Rod Deville 212. What’s a bit confusing is that my while my digitech tonedriver (OD), and my Digitech Hot Rod distortion predictably sound terrible in the effects loop, my Metal Master sounds incredible in the FX loop. Very 3 dimensional and full of life, whereas if I put it outside the loop it sounds flatter. Any thoughts on this? Also, recommendations on where to put a Boss RC-2 loop station, and an MXR clean boost? The article says to put a boost before the amp input, but a volume pedal in the loop, so I could use some clarification for a clean volume boost pedal. Thanks.
Nice buy on the Hot Rod Deville! The Metal Master pedal in the FX loop would push only the power tubes, so it would have a different sound. You would get no breakup from the preamp tubes. This makes sense with a distortion pedal and means that you like the pedal’s sound better than how it sounds when the pedal is pushing the preamp tubes (also makes sense with a Deville, not exactly a metal-distortion amp). Because you like the sound of it there, I’d say stick with it!
In regard to the clean boost, I’d keep that out of the loop. It will still contribute to your OD sound if you stack them. You can have more control that way.
For the RC2, it’s a taste thing. I’ve seen both. With Guitar > RC2 > Amp, your looped guitar will be driven by the preamp. In the FX loop, the guitar alone will be driven, and then looped. It might also help to read another article I wrote, focused specifically on FX loops: http://wp.me/p1mrO8-4j
Great post! Really enjoyed the description of order, but the feedback to specific questions in the comments is the best!
Re pedal chain.
I use a EH Tube EQ and I have a Providence compressor. Should the Tube EX be placed before or after the compressor.
Thanks in advance
While it’s up to taste (do you want to compress the EQ’d tone or EQ the compressed tone?), I would put the EQ first. If you are tweaking the tone slightly, you could probably get away with putting the EQ after the Compressor, but you’ll get a better tone with the EQ first. You’ll hear the difference more drastically if you are bumping up you low end or doing some other heavier EQ work.
This is one of the most concise and helpful articles I have every read about how to organize your effects. I was totally confused about what to put where and this crystalized the whole topic for me. Now I know what goes in front of what, what does in the fx loop and what doesn’t, etc. It took me forever to find out where my compressor should go in the whole chain and this article answered that too. Well done, and thank you. I ‘ve bookmarked your page for future reference.
Hey! Glad we could help. If you ever have any questions or issues that could use an article or even a quick response, feel free to email us (thepedallab@gmail.com). Take care.
Any views on what sort of cable and plugs should be used for connecting pedals together? Given the short lengths used do you really need high quality cable?
Cheers,
David.
How would you order these pedals? Current order is: Guitar>RC Booster>Barber Small Fry>Tech 21 Liverpool>EHX Memory Boy>Boss DD7>DI>PA
The RC Booster, Liverpool and Memory Boy are always on, the others off more than on. The RC is set pretty much at 12 o’clock on vol/Gain/bass/treble. Liverpool relatively clean. What I’ve noticed is that the Small Fry doesn’t seem to be able to push the Liverpool. When set with fairly high volume and fairly low drive, the expected boost of the Fry just seems to be swallowed up by the Liverpool following it.
I just purchased a MJM London Fuzz and I love how it sounds by itself.
I also use a Ibanez tube screamer TS-9, and an EHX Micro POG.
When chained together: Gibson (humbuckers) > fuzz > TS-9 > POG > Fender Blues Deluxe, or any other pedal order for that matter, the fuzz gets really fizzy and weak sounding.
I believe I can possibly put the POG in the effects loop, but even with just the TS-9 and the fuzz together in front of the amp, the fuzz won’t have it.
Is there anyway around this, or do I need to choose between one?
Thanks.
Hello there i have a few questions about what i can to do to get the best tone. im looking for that sweet spot in my overdrive/distortion Ok here is my equipment: amp- orange rockerverb 50watt. Pedals- crybaby wah 350q, tc eletronic tuner, ernie ball vp, route 66 visual sound, fulltone OCD, zvex distortron, fulltone gt 500 then i have chorus and a line 6 modulation and giga delay And a pog 2 harmonizer im look im look for that comtemporary rock distortion
I have read your article, and I did notice something you didn’t mention. Octave fuzz and placement. I have a Brassmaster clone that has this really octave fuzz flavor, but I think it really sounds best AFTER overdrive. I don’t use a very driven bass tone though, just a light touch to give some flavor to it.
Hi. Here’s my setup in order:
GUITAR -> Tuner -> Wah -> Limiter -> Compression Sustainer -> Tube Screamer -> DOD 250 Overdrive -> Volume -> Tremolo -> Line 6 DL4 Delay -> Reverb -> AMP
Is that the appropriate order, or do I need to make adjustments?
Thanks,
Andrew
Greetings… I’ve got a Tweak fuzz pedal and a boss distortion ( both coming after a tuner), not sure which to place first in order to achieve a soft kind of fuzz as well as a crisp distortion. I stay mainly with power chords and some soloing in a black keysey type band… Any thoughts?
Could you help me with this Bass Pedalboard Setup? Fender American Standard Precision Bass—>Korg Pitchblack, Markbass Compressore, Micro POG, Boss CEB-3 Chorus, MXR Bass Envelope Filter, MXR Carbon Copy, EHX Bass Big Muff, ISP Decimator, and finally…MXR 10 Band EQ—>Ampeg Microstack CL. Thanks in advance!
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